tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1087725982765704215.post6774341050960925751..comments2024-02-14T03:39:41.261-08:00Comments on ..........Williamite Warfare..........: Something New from Something OldUnlucky Generalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03483184112954794715noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1087725982765704215.post-6016159669846327452013-09-25T00:15:32.674-07:002013-09-25T00:15:32.674-07:00Rampjaar, thank you! That was certainly the impre...Rampjaar, thank you! That was certainly the impression I got looking at the paintings and doing some background reading. There are a few (but only a few) art historical/ academic articles written about the "battle painting" genre of the 1670s and 1680s which I managed to unearth years back. I've long searched for a comprehensive description of the studios which produced these paintings and any detail on whether the painters had been anywhere near a loaded musket, let alone a battlefield! I'd be very interested indeed if anyone has any good reference material. Although the paintings are generic, they're almost always evocative and have a real charm to them. Thanks again.Sidney Roundwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14795563060856586670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1087725982765704215.post-53473450816450893812013-09-24T20:07:22.227-07:002013-09-24T20:07:22.227-07:00Absolutely, I think we'd all be lost without i...Absolutely, I think we'd all be lost without it now!! We'd have to go back to that old fashioned thing called a library!!!!Ray Rousellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352596392520905197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1087725982765704215.post-82304371017233488682013-09-24T15:36:37.642-07:002013-09-24T15:36:37.642-07:00Well, I think it's a very novel idea and it...Well, I think it's a very novel idea and it's got lots of plus points, but I'm too old to be able to cope with such a project. I spent many frustrating years searching for uniform information in the days when Knotel was just a whispered rumour, so I know exactly what you mean. However, when you're faced with the choice of possible wholly inaccurate uniforms or none at all, I think it's a brave decision ( but then I always apply the golden rule: your project, your decisions). Maybe if you publicise the idea enough somebody will turn up with the information you're looking for.<br /><br />Me? I'm a coward: I'd fudge it. ;O)GaryAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06963552380378929829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1087725982765704215.post-62623911945455794872013-09-24T13:15:44.074-07:002013-09-24T13:15:44.074-07:00The Wouwerman studio painted on demand and painted...The Wouwerman studio painted on demand and painted generic soliders and flags to increase market potential. An exception may be Pieter Wouwerman, but I have to study his paintings in real life first.Rampjaarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02618605045955593359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1087725982765704215.post-22810193512508963832013-09-24T12:09:21.605-07:002013-09-24T12:09:21.605-07:00Thanks Ray but I suppose I've been so spoilt w...Thanks Ray but I suppose I've been so spoilt with facts in my other periods that at present it seems a stretch too far for me this time. For the time being at least. We really have come a long way since the 1990's when I re-engaged with the hobby in earnest. The internet has been a great help don't you think?Unlucky Generalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03483184112954794715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1087725982765704215.post-69253883794311627962013-09-24T12:04:15.102-07:002013-09-24T12:04:15.102-07:00Yes it's my hope that my ignorance on the subj...Yes it's my hope that my ignorance on the subject will not continue indefinitely. In the meantime perhaps I can create something novel, if not unique out of the darkness.Unlucky Generalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03483184112954794715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1087725982765704215.post-11630176118024112142013-09-24T11:48:06.568-07:002013-09-24T11:48:06.568-07:00Thanks my friend and if there is anything I can do...Thanks my friend and if there is anything I can do to help, let me know. Perhaps when you are ready to go to print I may be able to assist?<br /><br />In the meantime I think I'll forge ahead with this idea and replace or rather add colour regiments when I know how. Such is my fascination with this period. It's breathtaking to me that we have figure sculptors and manufacturers in this period but no corresponding research and painting guides. Funny how spoilt we wargamers have become in recent decades that I have come to expect (hope) co-ordinated release of new period ranges.<br /><br />I don't mind colourless in this period at this time. My Dutch Napoleonic and WSS units are in colour so I shall remain satisfied with that.Unlucky Generalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03483184112954794715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1087725982765704215.post-44821001490197837482013-09-24T08:50:32.526-07:002013-09-24T08:50:32.526-07:00very interesting idea! id really like to see how t...very interesting idea! id really like to see how the scenery turns out.now ideas are spinning in my head for another distracting mini side projectAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03290293367933581956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1087725982765704215.post-83035011780316275372013-09-24T05:22:00.886-07:002013-09-24T05:22:00.886-07:00Fellow blogger Curt painted his WWI French in grey...Fellow blogger Curt painted his WWI French in greyscale, take a look at his page, he explains his reasons. <br />http://analogue-hobbies.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/next-project-great-war-in-greyscale.html<br /><br />I do think it'll be a shame not to paint the Dutch up using their proper colours, it should look pretty cool, even if there's a bit of guesswork involved. But each to their own.Ray Rousellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352596392520905197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1087725982765704215.post-13008073759050996742013-09-24T02:31:55.261-07:002013-09-24T02:31:55.261-07:00That's a really interesting post. I definitel...That's a really interesting post. I definitely share your pain and frustration about researching some of the armies from the 1670s. For a long time I thought about expanding my Nine Years War armies (in 28mm) into the 1670s. This was in the 1990s, when there were only a couple of viable ranges of figures available - Dixons and Foundry. I was limited in figure choices, but the Dixon figures are so wonderful that I thought they could stretch earlier. <br /><br />I soon discovered that finding out anything written in English about Seneffe, Cassel and the actions of the petit-guerre of 1672-8 was challenging, and discovering anything about uniforms even more so. <br /><br />The conclusion I came to was that trying to find out actual uniform detail for the Dutch battalions of that period was simply going to be a frustrating process. (I had the same sort of trouble when trying to find out more about the uniforms of some of the formations recruited in Germany for William's invasion of England in 1688, but the earlier Dutch War of 1672 was even more obscure). <br /><br />My own breakthrough came, like yours, when looking at the art of the period. I visited the Louvre on a work to Paris and, because the really famous galleries were busy, I ended up in the fantastic collection of 17th Century Dutch paintings at the museum. There were a lot of pictures by Philips Wouverman and his School displayed. Many of these were military scenes, but almost none in any uniforms which we'd recognise from the 1690s. Despite this, the figures in Wouverman's "battle scene" paintings are noticeably military - they have a buff coat, or a red sash, and so on. There are flags in some of the pictures, but they are vague and often painted as being battle-ravaged. <br /><br />The more I looked into the art of painters like Wouverman, the more I liked the generic approach of painting military figures and thought this could work well for the 1670s on the wargames table. Rather than painting battalions, I would be painting armies - with a more generic feel for the Dutch than the English and French regiments about which more was known. The predominant colours would be brown, tan, red, ochre and unbleached linen. Anything outside these would be rare. Weathering would be typical. Where a regiment was fortunate enough to afford uniforms, these would probably only be a coat of uniform colour and would be brown. I would end up with an army of generic appearance, with standards corresponding to civic emblems or provincial colours.<br /><br />I did, in the end, come to think that many painters like Wouvermans were painting "battle scenes" on demand, and possibly had limited experience of any actual military conflict - but that avenue of thinking leads into very different places than getting figures on the wargames table!<br /><br />Anyway, good luck with the project - I think it sounds excellent. And don't worry - many people are travelling down the same Dutch Wars road along with you!<br />Sidney Roundwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14795563060856586670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1087725982765704215.post-72895693094231995822013-09-24T01:34:40.404-07:002013-09-24T01:34:40.404-07:00I think this is a perfect Idea, painting your mode...I think this is a perfect Idea, painting your models in a monochrome color<br />look up on the internet for the Ranger of Jen Haley a perfect example for this<br /> Patrick Diederikshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02195496927286201524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1087725982765704215.post-68128570569187222722013-09-24T00:54:16.098-07:002013-09-24T00:54:16.098-07:00I am working on it..but it will take some time bef...I am working on it..but it will take some time before something comes out in print. There is information available on the 1672 period, and given the fact there were a lot of regiments and limited possibilties on colours some margin is acceptable...Rampjaarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02618605045955593359noreply@blogger.com